9 - Hochzeit geplant – und der Rest? mit Seraina Herold

Julia Tatje: Yes, not yes. I didn't here to ask myself why we weddings, real and career plans for hours, words like marriage contract, testament or inheritance. Maybe because it like the like control, like something that you prefer to later. And yet I at Taksum, our personal tax boutique, day. People who bloom after they these things. Because clarity a completely unique form of freedom. And especially for people with wealth, international relations or not quite classic life models, non-regulation can quickly very expensive. Emotionally unsteerable or generally financially. Today I to a woman who looking exactly where others are looking away. Seraina Herold is a lawyer in Zurich and someone I not only appreciate professionally but also personally. Dear Seraina, that you here at Tags in the City today.

Seraina Herold: Yes, you for the invitation. too. I in criminal law, I came because of my mother, who was a very enthusiastic family lawyer and then also because of my education path. After the degree I was in in first instance and

Julia Tatje: themen.

Seraina Herold: knew Zurich and...

Julia Tatje: You know the opposite side as exciting case. the topic of contract, testament, inheritance, you probably often on the

Seraina Herold: Yes, but most people don't a marriage contract. So, the law So, I don't to deal And is similar. think many people deal with when they certain age.

Julia Tatje: you

Seraina Herold: Not necessarily, I think in the legal context you can't really predict how things will develop. We have to check Yes, exactly.

Julia Tatje: you mean you can without a marriage contract?

Seraina Herold: I think so. think the legal order we have here in Switzerland, if you have not regulated is good solution so-called citizenship distribution the property right, for example. I think it makes sense for people who may come abroad. Today we have a lot of bi-national marriages. where international or foreign law is involved. You also the possibility to a legal choice, for example, to the right of native state of the garden. It is definitely worth checking out. Yeah.

Julia Tatje: so two Italians, for in Switzerland and they are married, they can for example, marriage rights, for right we want to Italian legislation.

Seraina Herold: Okay.

Julia Tatje: You know the terms better I do. certainly be worthwhile in another country, are regulated in that your personal needs. And if it's an international case, do with an Italian lawyer? Or how do I imagine it?

Seraina Herold: exactly. Yes, I've before. But yes, would advise the parties to look into their consequences in case of divorce, for example, or a divorce through death. Yes,

Julia Tatje: because you don't all the laws from all countries. Almost all of but not all them. Okay, when it comes to subject of the of of of of of for more people. That's what I see here with the customers I to deal As you say, marriage contracts are necessarily unless the situation is a bit special. But testaments are many people, in my opinion, because the law regulates everything quite well and transparently, but maybe not always exactly like that. how I wish for or how I couple or as a single person. There are obligations, are consequences that I might want to deal with or yes, who needs

Seraina Herold: Yes, of course, have the ability to I notice that people turn to an attorney to a will or something that, to for example, wants certain people from the application, or that to that this person is as an Elven, or that a small part, the keyword obligation part, that we in Switzerland, people who someone feel better, or so to

Julia Tatje: a will? Yes.

Seraina Herold: Thank you for the to this person. These the cases that I most. And then of course in very complex economic conditions, it absolutely sense. what then of course, and then you are asked again, if there is a big role are course the tax consequences. is you have to think And then in the end there is a bit of an interdisciplinary cooperation between the lawmaker and actually the tax law.

Julia Tatje: Okay. is it that many people don't live in the classic marriage with their own children, but there are people who are second, third, fourth time, there are people who have children and are not married, there are people who live together with the children of the partner, married or not? Then gets really complicated, doesn't

Seraina Herold: Yes, these Patrick families, which we have seen or today we still continuing families, course, the whole thing a little more complicated. if you then a solution that somehow works exactly. No, Yes, exactly.

Julia Tatje: and all of are still considered fair and that is even possible. I think that's right. You can a lot, but you can't decide A duty is a duty and it doesn't away.

Seraina Herold: No, exactly. But you should always think about own life situation and think about if there is something that is important to You should about what the legal regulation like you didn't do what you can do if you to change I think it makes sense if a partner joins or if children or if you live in a family that certainly makes sense. And of when you move is also necessary to the whole thing. If we let with a marriage contract or a legal order, course is always a hint that if things change, you must and concerns ...

Julia Tatje: is, if I it in my own words, the first priority is You have to be aware of where you If you don't regulate you're fine with If you to regulate differently, how do you want regulate Can you that? If you have you for a moment, but it's not a topic that can forever. but if the situation changes, new people join the family, leave, financial conditions change, then you on the underlying conditions.

Seraina Herold: Yes, exactly, you really that precisely. That's it is. First, you have know what is actually rightful consequence of my current situation when I haven't And if that you... Exactly, that's wonderful. don't to see anything. If you notice, oh I want to differently, then look at how far that is legally. Yeah.

Julia Tatje: I is very important that you... For many people, think the topic is a burdensome topic because they have in their and think, oh, think I should do And is half-knowledge, which is present And it remains an unpleasant topic until the moment when you clarity. As soon I clear, I know where I am and where I want Am I already there or do I still to do And think for many people it is such a... Yes, a pain topic. it is unclear and because is also unspoken between couples. I don't know how you experience that. Whether there two people in front of you who may find in the conversation with that they actually don't agree

Seraina Herold: Yes, exactly. can conflicts, especially when think Or you to address Especially as a child, who wants the children. This can lead to conflicts, although the idea is mostly behind the that you want to these potential conflicts after That's why you the children who come after you into the boat and a solution is And I think that's something that's all these private admin who are tonight. That you don't trust children and you have everything. the case with tax declarations. After tax declaration you're before tax declaration. You're allowed to administrative hamster council. I think that's what people do. And now in Switzerland it's also like that. When you're married you have... a package of the law that gives you little of clear frame, that is such bad solution and you are not necessarily forced to explain but of course, if you not married and have children with someone, that you then course, that then all alternatively. That's why especially these people who are not married, who have to think about their care, exactly to the right of and so on.

Julia Tatje: so those who are married because they the famous marriage penalty or for many other reasons are not married. There is also the law that used, but very often in the law it not necessarily regulated as one might imagine.

Seraina Herold: Yes, exactly. married person has more rights because they certain rights, example information rights and so on. employment rights, depending on...

Julia Tatje: Even if you say representatives' and so on, I famous caretaker order in the sense. I think it is actually worthwhile everyone to with the topic. Can you briefly explain what a caretaker assignment is and what be in Maybe not, but...

Seraina Herold: Yes, in precautionary order you can actually a person who the event of an own inability to So businesses of community, of who then all administrative matters of the affected person. Since is now possible to live in situations, depending on certain medical areas, can then just that you appoint to whom you have trust and with whom you know that this person is known and that they act And also the possibility to down, not only the forecourt but also in a patient's facility, that you down your own will in relation to various situations, how you certain things. For example, you have a living situation and you can the hospital My idea is that I this home, that I to decide Yes, that you simply have it down and then don't have be afraid that who would be trusted, for example children and adult protection authorities, that a good example, that these people who have not known themselves, in the state of emergency, will then something that was not in their own sense. Or even if you ask that the own descendants are afraid that the descendants will be against a luxury Exactly, to save It's about the freedom of self-determination, that you your own even if you can't

Julia Tatje: and expensive home. is really medical, right? And in of it can all possible areas of life.

Seraina Herold: exactly. a bit of personal care can also be contained. Yes, yes, exactly.

Julia Tatje: Yes, the two are related but not the Okay, someone who married, can it still make to a caretaker? Or do you say it doesn't because the partner actually takes

Seraina Herold: Yes, it makes sense, because you can a replacement order. For example, the marriage certificate is maybe because it is self-sufficient, then you can another person. best.

Julia Tatje: I that someone else is In my caretaker's office I can decide who should

Seraina Herold: Yes, have never seen before, that you in categories, but I think that be And what you can also determine, for example, that one says the opinion of a person should be included, example, consultative, because you always to think about you want to determine which can act. It is complicated, but practical rules. is the background. At the time, is of tricky, if you have different descendants, and basically want them to the same rights, that you somehow find You might say, Prima, should in the X direction, but with these decisions

Julia Tatje: Okay. Also da ist man recht frei was man regeln kann und also das ist was was ich meinen Klienten doch häufig rate sich zumindest damit man auseinanderzusetzen meinen.

Seraina Herold: Yes,

Julia Tatje: And also there can decide, no, I don't it, but if you consciously the decision that you don't need you feel potentially more with and simply what you have committed to. you also things where you think, oh wow, no name, but can you tell that have remained with So where... family because there is no testament or an international context where it incredibly complicated because someone has not regulated or unmarried couples, someone What happens then? you tell without taking

Seraina Herold: Yes, yes, of I wouldn't that. the question has That's also an important input. If something changes in the family situation and you are perhaps an foreign origin, you must always and follow I had a case of a Swiss woman who was to a South American. But had been divorced and it never in this South American country. And in Switzerland, or vice versa, think they had written to in South America. And the wife never in Switzerland and died here. And then they got married. And this person left behind a close relative who was actually single heir But now we still this husband. which we didn't want to do. Now we were lucky that this husband had already died, he had before and we could that on We could it pragmatic way. Otherwise it gets complicated. You lose a of have to lot money, you have to foreign law. It's sometimes complicated and I said, it's time consuming. and therefore always remember that if something ends, all offices or registries intervene. Yes, always important and that's it's also that you actually teach or the things have to very clearly, that they the will to the expression. course, because often we unfortunately have exceptions and that's of course

Julia Tatje: That's a very input, which many don't think it is actually worse than before. Yes, if you don't it clear. I think there are people who have complex... situation, complex life situation, if you accompany that and in the end everything is regulated. How, so can you describe how you experience What changes for these people? Is it relief? Is it such a feeling, finally it clear and I can relax first? Or what are the emotions?

Seraina Herold: I don't with me. Because you have to the document and then mandate is actually over and you don't with you.

Julia Tatje: I think that many people agree we have succeeded, that have agreed on something, if the second person or three or four other people are if we good solution. I think it's relaxing, calming and it leads to that certain topics, we said, you shouldn't in the drawer but that you as regulated Yes.

Seraina Herold: think that these people have this feeling. That's their drive, they are excited, that there is security for And I get these emotions more. other end with yes to the fight comes you have a solution, be it such good part or also through a agreement yes exactly that you are happy that you know and

Julia Tatje: you what Many our customers have an international background. Either a partner comes from abroad, both come from abroad, or they have abroad time. and are not necessarily here in Switzerland Is there anything you would that would important for everyone who lives and works who has family here, has children, who married or not, that they are really aware of... and what many people don't know. I can tell you what I have As American, you to aware that practically every decision in life an on the taxes, sooner or later. And many Americans are extremely aware many non-Americans think that the laws will somehow for me. But is there something that you would really everyone, hey, you should of things? Or do no, can actually relax, the Swiss laws are good? Well, they are good, but...

Seraina Herold: I think it is important to know what it means to married. So there are consequences, but as you said, it has for many people to together with an end to the marriage. I think there are different types of who it and recognize it. I husband who is also a lawyer, who is solving I want to know what the of the is. I want to on that I

Julia Tatje: written in the contract?

Seraina Herold: And then there is the other group that thinks marriage is something emotional. And I want to the negative. Yes, all kinds of negative ends do not intersect and I think they are not so open that they think about what it actually means to married. Exactly, as you say, experts or simply foreign state-owned companies that then to a far country, whether Switzerland or wherever, they should always think about how the rule law is in my hometown and how it here and can I maybe choose and is one of the solutions for me more advantageous.

Julia Tatje: Can I turn Yes, exactly. We have now talked romance and contracts, which are two things that don't necessarily all identical. Are you confronted with the that one partner wants to and other does not?

Seraina Herold: Yes,

Julia Tatje: Okay.

Seraina Herold: I think that's something see quite That it's matter of your own partner. It's a question of character. There are who let it them. There are also pro-actives who want to

Julia Tatje: Can we with the myth that a marriage contract always makes sure that someone is worse off but that is just a Hollywood story. Marriage contract means period of to 75 old, 20,000 francs a month. That's not what a marriage contract is

Seraina Herold: Yes, that is something else. In a marriage day can't everything. For example, the question of maintenance in event of a divorce you can't really regulate.

Julia Tatje: Yeah.

Seraina Herold: On marriage day, can a agreement, it still on a judicial approval. Of course, if it not completely unconditional, the court will follow, but still, you can't it yourself. And what we see is that people want just like they on earth, those people who marriage contracts or marriage contracts that want the other's The word is freight separation. People here because they to freight separation. And less talk about... that happens. Or least case. From community. Therefore, here, like with the taxes, not maybe, like with the are financial interests, the background. Or it is also to a marriage contract. I think good. Where you can determine what the marriage has to with the marriage. So that in the event of a divorce there no argument. Because often is the that most marriage couples do not know what they had in the divorce. Or they know it, but is still a dispute and they cannot prove it. And that is just very complicated. is time-sensitive, very cost-intensive.

Julia Tatje: if two poor 20-year-old students get you probably don't If two people end up marrying who already have a business life and wealth and maybe a company. and bring a portfolio, then I think a very valuable tip. And that is not a multi-faceted work, but it is basically a fixed status quo.

Seraina Herold: Yes,

Julia Tatje: This top tip for all who have just married, or who are yet married, because you can the marriage contract if you already married. Many do not that. It is not something that beforehand. Yes, when the honeymoon phase is over. just before the divorce it might be difficult.

Seraina Herold: exactly. But it is also possible it will be bit more Because before the wedding or the honeymoon phase it is easier to the other person's Yes, is probably not right moment. But you should take of It tip for everyone in every situation You have to aware of your...

Julia Tatje: Where am I? And if I do what does it And if I want what could I do? for every non-acting. But there should reasons and not be coincidence. I think that's important.

Seraina Herold: Yes, absolutely. you should just know why you don't act. You don't have to act, but should least explain

Julia Tatje: and that is, as you say, many areas. It starts with the pension fund and it over the insurance of it goes over a potential marriage contract, it goes over the taxes, it goes with everything. So if I know what the is, I potentially sleep

Seraina Herold: exactly. when you are moving to a foreign country. think it is good invest the money when you maybe exchange with a specialist and not just google it. Exactly. the legal field, in the Swiss law. You can't rely that. Maybe once, but today we're not that far And then of course the experience of the specialist counts, because the specialist was often there when it failed and then the key can I think that's the valuable experience.

Julia Tatje: Yeah.

Seraina Herold: I think

Julia Tatje: Absolutely. And I think it's important to say that there are intelligent people out there who no about the Swiss legal system, biotech research, who... write complicated code that large planes. But that's what they can And it's to experts in And it's not a shame, but a sign that you're smart. Yes,

Seraina Herold: to grasp and as I said, effort is not big at

Julia Tatje: I think marriages, contracts, testaments, pre-marriage contracts, all of is not romantic in classical sense, but it is honest and responsible. I think the subject of And that is a gift that you to your own future self and also your offspring. And then is still not romantic in its own sense, but can least the person you love.

Seraina Herold: Yes, absolutely. them in. I think that's very in the context of marriage law, when you at a certain age and then also the opinion of the offspring or potentially married people. Yes, Yes, we don't want to follow on I it to especially if you ahead, that it the right thing to because the ideas can be very different. Yes, we often see that there great need to these

Julia Tatje: Absolutely right, I would say, if there is You probably see more often how things go wrong than you think. Unfortunately, you have to say.

Seraina Herold: Yes, exactly. Yes, unfortunately. Yes, exactly, unfortunately.

Julia Tatje: Thank very much for stories and your time. If you listened me today and thought you should really take care that's exactly the sign that it took to not alone and to it into your own All information about Serena, about us at Taksum and about this episode is in the show notes. It's strange that exactly the things that we... and us most peace when they settled. And just like that, was another episode of Tax in the City. Thank you very Rainer.