5 - I Thought I’d Figure It Out Later - The Real Cost of Waiting to Invest

Cristina Jaeger: Alexa? I have to try

Julia Tatje: Julia and Alexandra are navigating a dark room. So yeah, that was my favorite so far. Okey doke! So I'll the intro and then... Let's get started. You don't a script, but you like it. You can talk that would good. What I going to Your goal is between 20 and 30 minutes. Not too long.

Cristina Jaeger: I think I like it. Otherwise I it all. And I will talk into right? Should we see it? Yes, you are right.

Cristina Jaeger: Okay. I couldn't help but wonder why so many real, ideal, brilliant, international, prefect, managed computer-like relationships that commit to one's life calms down. Somewhere between a country, spending careers, and doing everything right, becomes that quiet thing.

Julia Tatje: And otherwise we'll it a bit shorter. Okay. Ready? Good. I couldn't help but wonder why so many women I admire, brilliant, international, ambitious, treat their financial future like a relationship they'll commit to once life calms down. Somewhere between moving countries, building careers and doing everything right, money becomes that quiet thing we promise we'll deal with later.

Cristina Jaeger: always we deal with later. Later, we'll be dealing with a lot of things are less intimidating, later we'll be finding that we have time. And yet, later, that is a way that gets you inexpensive. Well, from the left to the top, city is a place where international life meets categorically, and where we talk about the things that change our thinking a lot before we realize it. Today's conversation is very close to my heart because it's about women.

Julia Tatje: Later, when we know more, when it feels less intimidating, later when we finally have time. And yet, later has a way of getting expensive. Welcome back to Tax and the City, the place where international life meets tax reality, and where we talk about the things that shape our freedom long before we realize it. Today's conversation is very close to my heart because it's about women. money, confidence and the moment we stop outsourcing responsibility for our future. I'm joined by Christina Jäger, founder of Her Financial Freedom. Christina spent years in banking advising the ultra wealthy while quietly realizing that even she hadn't been taught how to take care of her finances in a way that felt empowering. We were introduced by a mutual friend, bonded instantly over bold colors and she shared

Cristina Jaeger: money, confidence and moments of outsourcing responsibility for our future. I'm joined by Christina Yeager, founder of Her Financial Freedom. Christina spent years in banking advising the ultra wealthy, white-white theory writing that even she hadn't been taught how to take care of her finances in a way that's been empowering. We were introduced by neutral friends, born instantly of bold colors and she said...

Julia Tatje: the belief that taxes, investing and pension planning don't have to be boring, scary or masculine to be taken seriously. Kristina, I'm so happy you're here. Welcome to Tax in the City.

Cristina Jaeger: Thanks for having me and for shining a light on this important topic. Yes, it is. So, you had a front row seat for a long time. Take a second, how did you end up in banking in the first place?

Julia Tatje: Yes, is. So, Christina, you had front row seat to wealth for a long time. Take us back. How did you end up in banking in the first place?

Cristina Jaeger: As I say, my parents actually had quite a big influence already. So my dad was a banker and I remember when I was barely walking, when you walk with like two or three, like you remember you had these briefcases in the, what was it, eighties of the men with the letter and like this. So I was trying to grab that, right. And lift it up and say, I will go to work. So I was trying to imitate him already. So I think since I can remember, I always knew I wanted to become a banker.

Julia Tatje: And I knew that for example, was barely more than 24 hours, like two or three. Like you remember how the three faces in the, what was it, eighties of the men with the leather in them. So I was to grab them and I lifted it up and said, I have a book for you. So since then I remember I wrote a book for my own maker and I worked with him to make that book and I loved it.

Cristina Jaeger: I worked in international banking hubs. And my mom, she always said, Christina, you will never be dependent on a man. You will work something good with where you earn money. Something substantial. Yeah, something where you earn money. So no entrepreneurship, right? Just go and follow the corporate route. So yeah, that's what I went on doing. And then luckily, through my dad, I could start internships abroad.

Julia Tatje: Yeah. Something substantial. Yeah, nothing really done. No, actually a writer for the corporate group. So yeah, that's what I went on doing. And then luckily, through my dad, I could start internships abroad and was currently learning from the framework.

Cristina Jaeger: coming from Germany, close to Frankfurt. And then I went on doing internships in Frankfurt, in Zurich, in Luxembourg, and then Singapore. And then luckily I could start working in Zurich, which was, or is, the center of... Obviously, but also the center of wealth management. Yes. So, like, more care, think, is needed. When you start realising that...

Julia Tatje: The most beautiful city in the world. It is, yes. More importantly, how you ended there, or how you started there, when did you start realising that something wasn't adding up, especially for women?

Cristina Jaeger: and especially for women. It took me a while. Yeah, it took me a while. And I'm still, again, when I read new studies, et cetera, shocked again and again. And I hear that feedback also from other women who are already empowered and who are already independent. But when I face them with these numbers, they're like, oh, wow, like it hits you again,

Julia Tatje: Yeah, for a while. And then I'm still like, I need to study the psychological facts again and again. And I need to get like, open to other women who are already power and who are already independent. But when I face them with these numbers, I'm like, it hits me again. So what kind of numbers, for example? Not about the political, about the new wealth, about the earning gap. It's in Switzerland, it's 150%. I can imagine.

Cristina Jaeger: numbers about the pension gap, about the wealth gap, about the lifetime earning gap, which is in Switzerland almost 50 % of men and women. And it's clear, right? Like the roles that we're taking on, we're reducing our working hours or giving up the job or reducing for a few years, pausing, going also in industries where we earn less. There are studies that show that when women enter an industry, the average salary decreases.

Julia Tatje: We're reducing our work hours, we're reducing for a few years, going into the industry is very difficult. I hope that when food enters the industry, that it will be... In the whole industry? Yeah. So even if it was an industry before that was more masculine, salaries could drop. Yeah. Wow, that's shocking. That's shocking.

Cristina Jaeger: So you were in a for a long time, and salaries were dropping. Yeah, Salivisertra. Isn't that amazing? That's shocking, huh? So how it went for me is I always naturally, I don't know why, maybe because I was in a super long relationship, but I never had male friends. So I always had girlfriends. And I was living here in Switzerland and then in Asia. And I always had like...

Julia Tatje: Wow, And I was living here in Switzerland, in Aitra, and I always felt like so many girls were supposed to dead, maybe because their faces were almost very sensual and large, so I was kind of branched as them, then afterwards they were me.

Cristina Jaeger: so many girlfriends and I hosted events maybe because also our places were always very central and large so I hosted branches and afterwards like after works and I don't know I just had an amazing female community of empowered women so clever women exactly were only earning their own money right they were smart and international often anyway so then they I moved to Hong Kong when I was 30 because

Julia Tatje: I don't know, I just had an amazing community of empowered women. Clever women. Clever women, they are early in their life, they are smart and international. Anyway, so then I moved to Hong Kong in the 1930s because basically what I did in 20th century is I served high net worth. So, clients that have, say, a few minutes, they have to fight.

Cristina Jaeger: Basically, what I did in Switzerland, in Zurich, is I served high net worth. We call that in banking. So clients that have, let's say, a few million, maybe up to 5 million, 10 million. So international clients that were banking in Switzerland, I served them. And then after I did that a few years, UBS came. I was with UBS back then and asked, hey, Christina, now you've worked with billionaires for a few years. How about you now add a few zeros and you work

Julia Tatje: So, we have the kinds that were banking interest matters. And then after a few years, we have the pain, those few years we have them, and it's a state of senile. Now, you've worked with finance for a few years, how would you know if you're zero and you work with the business but you don't know? Would you have that? I imagine you were like, yes, when is my plane leaving? Exactly. Like that.

Cristina Jaeger: Billionaires but in Hong Kong. Would you have done it? Exactly like that Like that so that I moved to Hong Kong and all these like international women experts. Yeah, like you earn well, right? So in my studies they were then saying hey Christina now we have some money like how do we do that? What do we do with it? You should know right? Tell me and in the sense of like just give me a few sentences and I will be fine I will know how to do it

Julia Tatje: I will take care of it myself. Exactly. And then it's like, yes, it's good, we have to make a theory that's possible to prepare content.

Cristina Jaeger: Exactly. And then it's like, my god, ladies, like, yes, let's do it. But I cannot tell you this over a class of Prosecco. We have to maybe come up with a series or something. I have to prepare content and I cannot like in one uproar tell you, yeah, tell you what I learned in 15 years in banking and studying macroeconomics and finance. Right. So that's how it all started. And then parallel, so imagine Hong Kong, have you seen ever the skyline? It's amazing. Right. So I was like,

Julia Tatje: Yeah. It's not a one-liner. Yeah. So that's what was happening in Harlem, the national home. Have you seen that? yes. I will say, if you know how many islands there are in the Netherlands, one international finance center, 50th floor. were working UBS.

Cristina Jaeger: If you know Hong Kong Island, then you have the mainland. So on Hong Kong Island, International Finance Center, 50th floor. We were working UBS wealth management. And imagine like you drive the elevator up, you enter, you exit marble floors. In the client rooms, there were tables, probably more expensive than my salary, right? And this, like billionaires come in there and it's sometimes new wealth, not like in Europe, right? Generation wealth, it's new wealth. And then you sit there and you have the privilege of

Julia Tatje: Imagine you drive the elevator out, you enter, you exit, the world works in the climate of the world. It's probably more expensive than my salary right now. And this billionaires come in there and it's sometimes new wealth, it's like a bureau, right? wealth, it's new wealth. And then you sit there with the privilege of discussing wealth strategies over generations and make it so interesting. And then you don't have to it for everyone. That makes it easier for you. So I was just wondering if I...

Cristina Jaeger: discussing wealth strategies over generations. It's so interesting. And then the different cultures and the many, many zeros. so this was my day routine. But then on the other hand, there were these questions from my girlfriends. And I wanted somehow to fuse my knowledge with the need that I saw with my girlfriend. So we started the series. I said, OK, let's meet four evenings, Wednesdays and four weeks.

Julia Tatje: my name was him, but then I found another question from my girlfriend, right? And I wanted somehow to fuse my knowledge with the need that I exposed my girlfriend. So we started this period, I said, okay, this means Wednesdays and four weeks, and we started this, I remember they were sitting on the couch, and a woman, and the third of course, tonight, I looked at them, and we were discussing, we were very excited.

Cristina Jaeger: And we started this, and I remember they were sitting on a couch, and in one moment, in the third or fourth night, I looked at them, they were discussing, they were excited, because in the beginning they were like, oh, finances and numbers, can't do it or don't want to do it and not really interested, or someone has to it, they don't relate to it exactly. And suddenly they were sitting there, discussing, engaged, one said, ah, I realize there is not one way.

Julia Tatje: Because in the beginning, I can't do it. I'm a woman, I have no idea. Yes. is something.

Cristina Jaeger: And then the other one said, I found out this and that. And then the other one gave feedback and it was just an amazing dynamic. Right. And then I decided, okay, we need to do something out of that. There is something. And they went on and told us to their girlfriend. So we had to do a second round then COVID hit. Yeah. Everything was where I zoomed. And what, I mean, I'm not a coach. I'm not a trained person on how to educate or teach or coach. And then COVID hit and we did the same.

Julia Tatje: And they went on and told us to get our friends, we had to do a second round, then COVID hit. Everything was resume. And what, I I'm not a coach, I'm not a trained person on how to educate or teach or coach. And we did the same routine that we did in my living room one day. So you can imagine, we have a working day, and how could we have a training round? And then we sit there, four hours, and a Zoom meeting about finances.

Cristina Jaeger: routine that we did in my living room online. You can imagine you have a working day in Hong Kong, you also work crazy hours. And then you sit there four hours in a Zoom meeting about finances.

Julia Tatje: It was very boring. I think it was very hard for me to follow. I needed to hire someone. had the most amazing work in Colombia. was amazing. The time between Colombia and exactly the same. For one and half years, I really created a mentoring program. So it accidentally came to you? Accidentally came to me, but I expected to that out.

Cristina Jaeger: It was very boring. It was very boring. I think it was very hard for them to follow. okay, I need to hire someone. I hired the most amazing woman from Colombia back then, which was amazing. The time difference between Hong Kong and Colombia was exactly their morning, my late night. So for, one and a half years, I really created a mentoring program, right? Where we accidentally came to me, but I kept on walking that path. Because it just felt so nice. So I was working by day, working then by night. And then I was working by night. Much later, much later. Do you also think that the whole finite topic isn't just one element and it's also very emotional? It's 1000 % emotional. And I think this is... Like for example, on the weekend we had a webinar.

Julia Tatje: Because it just felt so nice. I was working by day, working by night. And then one day you quit your day job and made your night job a day job too. Do you also think that the whole finance topic isn't just about numbers but it's also very emotional? And I think that's it. And I realize when you unlock, you give the space to emotions, suddenly it's this way to her. And it's not only here anymore, it's here. And I try to unlock this, like our events are positive, colorful, empowering, they give us the power to feel positive. And I always try to unlock this emotional level. Because it's like you yesterday in your speech,

Cristina Jaeger: I realized when you unlock, you give the space to emotions, suddenly it hits way deeper. And it's not only here anymore, but it's here. And I try to unlock this, like our events are positive, colorful, empowering, like the word empowering falls often. And I always try to unlock this emotional level. It's like what you said yesterday in your speech. I want that women have the safe space and they have it. And once they realize this, feel safe. Hey, is a sharing. goes so deep, so vulnerable. Sometimes, and I mean, we're talking here, CEO women, business owners, career women, international expert, like they have lived. It's not intelligence, not confidence also in other areas, right? So then they sit there and sometimes they even, if they not cry, right? But they open up, say, wow.

Julia Tatje: I want them to have the same space and they have it. And what they realize is they feel safe, hey, have the story, goes so well. Sometimes, and we're talking here, CEO, business owners, career owners, they have it. Yeah, intelligence is the issue ever. It's not confidence also, in other areas, right? So then they can sit there and sometimes, if they're trying, they open up, they wow.

Cristina Jaeger: From my mother I learned this, from my dad I learned this. Or from society, don't speak about money. it's definitely emotional. But the good thing is you can tie it into a positive emotion. Yes. So I'm doing something similar with the fee of taxes. Yes. But I think what we can do is that what we aim at is not in West-Hungary finance itself. I don't feel stupid about this anymore.

Julia Tatje: from my mother and from my dad. Or from society. don't speak about that. But the good thing is you can't say it's not political. Yes, definitely. So, I'm doing something similar with the field of taxes. I think what we share is that what we aim at is this moment where somebody finally says, I don't want to feel stupid about this anymore. And now I don't feel stupid anymore because I have the confidence now that I can do it and I will do it. It's not only about the yes, can do it, no. So you actually make these women that are in your programs, you actually get them doing.

Cristina Jaeger: And now I don't think it's too brilliant because I have the confidence that I can do it and I will do it. It's not only about yes, we can do it, so you actually make these women in your program. You actually get them doing it. Exactly, get them doing it. mean, look, literally yesterday, right, we had the Women's Circle, 45 women. There is a chatter, there is a connecting. Some even don't know each other, have never seen each other, but they are supportive. It's an amazing vibe.

Julia Tatje: And then there was a time some two years ago. She's a very shy person.

Cristina Jaeger: And then there was a client from two years now, and she came to me and she's a very shy person. I have never seen her like that. She's like, hey, Christina, I also wanted to tell you and talk to you and give you feedback. I'm now super invested, like we invested all her liquidity. She discusses now, finds with her partner. She looked confident the way she spoke. And then she said, and now I'm interested to follow the news.

Julia Tatje: had never seen her like that. She's like, hey, Christina, I just wanted to tell you and talk to you and you feedback. I'm now super invested. We invested all over our community. She discussed with our fans at the party. She looked confident the way she spoke. she said, you know, I'm interested in following you. And I searched for fans at the party and then I was passing this with my partner. So I asked her if we could podcast.

Cristina Jaeger: And I search for funds and for equities and then I'm discussing this with my partner. So what I usually ask when we do podcasts also, or when I do testimonials, I ask, did it change only the financial part or something else? Like so many areas of life, like really they say suddenly they, because we speak a lot about emotions. which values do actually have? What do I actually want from my money? What do I actually want from my life? How do I want to spend offments about retirement?

Julia Tatje: When I do testimonials, I ask, did it change only the financial part or something else? and it's always something else. so many areas of life, like somebody, because we speak a lot about emotions, which values were actually, what do I actually want from my life? What do I actually want from my life? How do I want to spend off my work and time? How do I want to spend? What's my goal? What's my goal? Exactly. And I spend according to these values? Am I investing?

Cristina Jaeger: How do I want to spend? What's my goal? Exactly. And am I spending according to these values? Am I investing according to these values? Right? Because you can invest in different companies. So it opens up so many topics. But what I want to say, actually, the point is, it's not a thing where I can in one evening or in one week. We will change your life. It takes time. And the thing is, feel like the problem is usually women.

Julia Tatje: according to these values, right? Because we can invest in different companies. So it opens up so many topics, but what I want to say is, it's not a thing where I can work for a or a week. It takes time. And at the same time, I feel like... The problem is usually women see this urgency when something is happening. so I can hear it, there's divorce. And then it's not good to learn... Because there's too much emotion involved anyway.

Cristina Jaeger: See this urgency when something is happening. someone died. I inherit. There's a divorce. And then it's not a good moment to learn and dive deep into it. Exactly, and you're overwhelmed with other stuff, So a client of mine, she's 63, she said it perfectly. She said, I wish these women would take action when everything is good in their life. They have a flourishing career, et cetera, et cetera. That's the perfect moment to get started because it will.

Julia Tatje: So. A client of mine, she said it perfectly, she said, I have reached this goal that would take action when everything is good together. they have a flourishing career, etc. And that's the perfect moment to get started. Because it will take time. And I always say, you want to make it and guide it, you know, make it easy for you and fun, but it can't do it for you. Yes. You can do it together. But in the end, even if you're out of the game, I have part of my wealth, it's also managed by a wealth manager, my work in the buckets.

Cristina Jaeger: take time and I always say I can motivate you, can guide you, can you know make it easy for you and fun but I cannot do it for you. Yes we can do it together but in the end even if you are out of like I have parts of my wealth is also managed by a wealth manager. I work with buckets in the wealth distribution but I still need to know what's going on, why, how many fees.

Julia Tatje: You still need to decide, I want this and this amount of my money to go to this wealth manager and tell him to do it. Or her, of course. Yes, of course her. Pardon. So yes, this is very much what I see as well.

Cristina Jaeger: And why? and then to do it. This is very much what I see as well. have a lot of American clients and so many of them still outsource the whole tech and finance topic, just by default.

Julia Tatje: a lot of married clients, and so many women still outsource the whole tax and finance topic just by default to their partner. And often, if there is a divorce, I mean, it's not a secret that there is divorces out there. And then suddenly, it's like, I have no idea about my situation. I have never done it before.

Cristina Jaeger: Often, if there is horse, I mean, it's not a secret that there is a horse out there. And then suddenly, it's like, have no idea about this situation, I have never done it before. And the insecurity doubles and triples, like, because you didn't build up any knowledge in years before. So that's really a shame. I so much encourage you.

Julia Tatje: and the insecurity doubles and triples because you didn't build up any knowledge in the years before. So that's really a shame. I so much encourage or want to encourage every woman out there to own their finances and everything that is tied to it. So it's not only the investments, it's also the pension plan of your employer. Whoever looks at that. If I ask people what kind of plan do you have? Do you contribute a lot or not? Do you have choices in there? They're like, I don't know, how am I supposed to know? And then I'm like, you do receive yearly reports from your pension fund. Do you use that? Does it go to the bin directly or do you actually have a look at it? And I'm no, it's so boring. I'm not going to look at that.

Cristina Jaeger: and I'm like you don't risk getting reports from your... Do you think that does it go directly or you actually have a look at it? I love that you say that because maybe we can also give some actionable tips, Like what you can definitely do is, so you have in the pension system, you have always three pillars. Actually, most of the countries in world is the same. have governmental, employer and private. So ensure that the first two are invested if you have a say, especially the second one.

Julia Tatje: You can't choose in the first one in Switzerland. It is done by the government. You can't change anything about it.

Cristina Jaeger: Exactly.

Julia Tatje: Like what you receive doesn't necessarily reflect what you put in. So it's the element of solidarity in the Swiss system. But yes, and from pillar two onwards, there is choices. Exactly. Maybe. And it's also a matter of negotiation point for your... Yes. ...contract or promotion and they can't make it more celery. I think... Yes.

Cristina Jaeger: And it is another, it's choices and it's also another negotiation point for your employment. So if you negotiate a new contract or promotion and they can't give you more salary, ask, hey, can you pay like opt up the rates that they contribute and you contribute or ask which provider they have. Like if you're self-employed, right, try to get a provider that's cost efficient and like increase the possibility of the

Julia Tatje: would provide a cost efficient and increase the possibility of the strategy and then do the three like the private pension. If you follow me,

Cristina Jaeger: the strategy of the risk strategy and then do pillar three like the private pension. If you follow me a bit like I work with my dad, my dad is my brand, market specialist and we have a very strong opinion on bonds which is no financial advice but like we're full on equity. So yeah I always try if the woman can afford it right that we increase a bit the risk strategy.

Julia Tatje: market specialist and we have a very strong opinion on bonds which is no financial advice and we're full on equity. So yeah, I always try if the woman can afford it, right, then we increase a bit the risk strategy. Yes. But yeah, I want to say is we use this also especially for the two or three or also I have employed a 1D I think. Yes. there are negotiations

Cristina Jaeger: But yeah, what I wanted to say is like, use this also especially for the two, three, or there is also, I had in my last employment, a one E, I think, extra benefit. So there are negotiation Spielräume.

Julia Tatje: Yes, sometimes, like I do see a lot of salary certificates, naturally, because you need it for the tax declaration. And there are companies out there that at first glimpse, they pay a nice salary, but they only ensure the minimum in the pension plan. So I've seen this, especially with software companies, they will only ensure the first like 85,000 francs of the salary.

Cristina Jaeger: And there are companies out there that at first glance they pay a nice salary, but they only extort a pay in the pension plan. So I've seen that especially with software companies, they would only extort the first 85,000 grand per salary, but if the person earns like a quarter million, three thousand, that leads to several issues. mean, some people would...

Julia Tatje: But if the person earns like a quarter million, 300,000, that leads to several issues. mean, some people will be like, but that's nice because then more money ends up in my pocket. But there's no automatic, no automatism for old age savings. It also means that your company is saving a lot of money because they don't need to add on their employer part of the contributions.

Cristina Jaeger: But that's nice because then more money ends up in my pocket. there's no automatism for all the trainings. It also means that your company is saving a lot of money because they don't need to add on their employer part of the contributions. And then also, it's quite hard with taxis because yes, there's more cash in your pocket, but it also means that...

Julia Tatje: Also, you would be hit quite hard with taxes because, yes, there's more cash in your pocket, but it also means that your taxable salary is higher. Then you're going to blame it on me, which is I'm only the messenger. It can be a strategy to accept such a contract, but only if you are fully aware of the implications and if you have other ideas of how to invest your money.

Cristina Jaeger: Yeah, okay. And then you got a pay-per-view, which is a message. But it can be a strategy to accept such contract, but only if you are fully aware of the implications, and if you have other ideas of how to invest the money to at least make up the old age savings for taxes. It's going to be a difficult thing, but it is...

Julia Tatje: to at least make up for the old age savings for the taxes. It's going to be a difficult thing, but it is. I want to raise awareness about this topic because there can be reasons to accept such a contract. It might be good reasons because it's bloody good money, Yes, so and you might say, OK, I'm living in Zug anyway, so I will accept the taxes or I'm

Cristina Jaeger: want to raise awareness about this topic because there can be reasons to accept such a contract. It might be a reason because it's a lot of good money maybe. And because you may be good with your own portfolio management? Yes. So you might say, okay, I'm living in a super-end-way so I don't accept the taxes or I'm an American. I don't care about the pension rate because it's not good for me anyway. So there's good and bad reasons for a lot of things, but you need to be aware.

Julia Tatje: an American. I don't care about the pension plan because it's not good for me anyway. So there's good and bad reasons for a lot of things, but you need to be aware and don't just sign something blindly and ask. Yes.

Cristina Jaeger: and don't just sign something like... Unfortunately, awareness is inconvenient, right? Because you need to create it. Talking about emotions, like I can remember, for example, I worked with a client, Nadine, in her 40s now, and she came out of a divorce and she really said this was her own words. She feels ashamed and stupid that she trusted the financial advisor of her husband. And they paid two and a half percent fees, it's like from Germany.

Julia Tatje: She feels ashamed and stupid that she trusted the financial advisor from her husband. And they take 2.5 % fees, aside from Germany, and a subscription fee into the product of 3-5%. So we need to make our 7 % rate. So we change the whole setup. And just for the wealth that she took out of the divorce, for the next 25 years, will save her 230,000 just fees.

Cristina Jaeger: and a subscription fee into the product of 3 to 5 percent. So imagine you need to make up 7 percent, right? So we changed her whole setup. And just for the wealth that she took out of the divorce, for the next 25 years, we will say for 230,000 just in fees. So just in fees. And just for that wealth that was there, not the wealth that she's creating continuously, right? So it is painful, I think, and the woman...

Julia Tatje: Just in fees. Just let that sink in. in fees. And just for that glass that was there, not the glass that she's creating continuously, right? So it is painful, think, and the woman mentioned pain a lot of times. Yes. But yeah, there's more forever. You have to step over it. Yeah. Yeah, get over it say, okay, I didn't look at that for years, but I will now. So you can't change the past, but you can change how you approach it in the future. Yeah.

Cristina Jaeger: mention shame a lot of times, but yeah there's one point where you have to like step over it and do something. Yeah, How much time do you have?

Julia Tatje: So, do you have more stories for us? Like Nadine's story. There's lots of them, I'm sure. Do you have a story, maybe, like a lot of my clients are internationally very mobile. So, this comes with implications for their tax situation. They receive RSUs from previous employment abroad. What does it mean?

Cristina Jaeger: Do you have a story? A lot of my clients are internationally very outside. So this comes with implications for their tax situation. They receive RSUs from a employment or what is an RSU? A restricted stock unit from a previous employer that is based in Overtime. What kind of tax implications?

Julia Tatje: a restricted stock unit from a previous employer that is vesting over time what kind of tax implications do we have here. So that's an international thing. Some have international properties, receive alimony from another country, have to pay something to another country. So there's a lot of international ties. So clients like that, do you have some stories?

Cristina Jaeger: we have here, that international property can receive any money from another country and you have to pay something to another country, so there's a lot of international ties. So, times like that we have some stories. Many, many, because it's also I think we have exactly the same people that we work with, except I'm not sure, but I think you are focusing on men and women, right? Yes.

Julia Tatje: Yes, Tuxall has a lot of male clients.

Cristina Jaeger: Almost all my clients have lived at least in two countries. The maximum is like five, seven. They are crazy. Sometimes I cannot even follow where have they lived. So what we do is we try to get all the pensions. They often don't know, am I owed a pension? Can I get it into Switzerland? How much pension would it be? Where do I want to retire? Then, ethics, right? Exchange, for incurrence exchange.

Julia Tatje: Can I ask you a question? How much of inspiration were you inspired by? Then, what efforts to raise the price the next phase for a music community? I have a of experience in this country and in the rest of the world. I have to always look at all the situations, which is fun. It's fun for them to be super over with. Once you see a black and white and you know, okay, this country, I keep it open. I make an example for them. So I have my property in Hong Kong, then my husband in Switzerland, a property in Germany, and they all have these.

Cristina Jaeger: I have, like you said, a mortgage in this country and a house in that country and rental income here. Like we have to always look at all the situations, which is fun. Like for me, it's For them, it's super overwhelming. But I feel like once you see it in black and white and you know, OK, this country, I keep it open. I'm making example for my own example, So I had like my broker account in Hong Kong, then my wealth management in Switzerland, broker account in Switzerland, a broker account in Germany. And they all had reasons, and obviously my pension is excellent. They all had reasons. Which currency am I having the assets in? Which strategy do I have there? Is it for long term? In my case, for example, all the vessels, all the pockets are for very long term. I only invest what I don't need anymore. So that's why I also go high risk rate and I have a long time horizon. Then parts I manage myself, parts is managed. So with every...

Julia Tatje: and also the revenue, they all get paid, which currently I'm Yes. Which is clear. Is that for long term, in my case for example, all the best books, all the projects, I only get that when I don't need it. So I get my own book and I do the spray and I have a lot of paper. And then for example, I mentioned myself, for example, So with every vessel of fucking high-tech, with every bank relationship, mortgage, how high the market has all of this we look into each other, we look at with each other, and they always ask the questions. So for example, are expecting that excellent signings here, that's a kind of plan, we want them. Now, when...

Cristina Jaeger: vessel or pocket, however you want to call it, with every bank relationship, mortgage, how high the mortgage is, if you should pay it back or not. All of this we look into each other, we look at with each other and then they always ask the questions ethics. So for example, Meryl, executive, actually in finance even, like it's a friend of mine in the meantime from Hong Kong. Now on a one year world trip, she has real estate, she's Dutch.

Julia Tatje: And she has been a stage research. Has been a stage in the Netherlands, she's lived in Spain, she's lived in somewhere in the North, somewhere in North Africa, and in America. And she's not taken the world's biggest opportunity that was in Hong Kong. Because she was just like, have the ability. So we started investing, we looked at, she has now won the vice president in corporate account in Hong Kong.

Cristina Jaeger: has real estate in the Netherlands, she's lived in Spain, she lived in somewhere in North Africa, I can't remember. Anyway, we consolidated the wealth basically between the Netherlands and Hong Kong, because the rest was just like cash, so we started investing, looked at, she has now a global advisor and a brokerage account in Hong Kong, we invested her pension because she was the one, she was contributing to the pension.

Julia Tatje: and we invested her attention because she was contributing to the pension, but she didn't know if it's a lesson or not, so we found out it's the most conservative record that get, it's just money, so it doesn't generate any. So now she has 76 digits for a serial investment, she was paying her rent in front of the...

Cristina Jaeger: She didn't know if it's invested, how it's invested. So we found out it's the most conservative bracket that you can have, like just money market. So it wasn't generating anything. So now she has several six digit portfolio invested. She knows, okay, I have my rental income. How do I do it with the taxes in the Netherlands? I can go on a one year world trip, which is fine. I feel like creating consciousness, what you said. I just received another voice note from Federica, who is an Italian living in Switzerland.

Julia Tatje: Yes.

Cristina Jaeger: She also quit her job, she's now somewhere in India doing a yoga retreat for four months. She said it gives her so much peace because she knows she can do it. And she's also fully invested. Yeah.

Julia Tatje: Yes. And you see, Christina is not telling everyone to not spend anything any longer. So we all want to have fun and we should have fun. It's just know how expensive your fun can be. Keeping your long-term goals in mind.

Cristina Jaeger: And I always say if you can spend you can also invest. I'm not the one who talking about frugal mindset, right? Everyone has their money mindset. For me it's not at all like you have the bandwidth of frugal people to high spenders. So the high spenders they are saying okay yes I need to like if I 400 exactly turn it down a bit if I spend 400 I invest 400.

Julia Tatje: I'm not the one talking about who does the mindset, right? Everyone does the mindset. For me, it's not enough to ban us from very frugal people to high spenders. So the high spenders, they are saying, okay, yes, need to like... Tune it down a bit. But you also have the other extreme, I cannot enjoy it. I have to keep it safe.

Cristina Jaeger: But you also have the other extreme. I cannot enjoy my money. I have to keep and safeguard my money. So for example, Gemma, she was my first flatmate when I moved to Hong Kong, which was very funny. But younger than me, Indian heritage, but from UK. Superfrugal, we were talking about my flatmate. We found out that her mom lost money in the stock market and then raised her with the superfrugal mindset, don't invest, don't risk your money.

Julia Tatje: So for example, she was my first flatmate. But yeah, superfood. Through talking, right, because she was my family, we found out that mom lost money in the stock market. Okay. then raised her with a superfood method. Don't invest, don't risk your money. Keep cash under your mattress. Moralists. Okay.

Cristina Jaeger: Or invest in real estate. People always think real estate is safe, but that's a whole different topic. Anyway, she took the course. She is now not so fool anymore. She said this actually changed her life. She will be able to retire at 47 years old. Cool, no? Yeah, you have cool stories.

Julia Tatje: She She Once you say you have a good plan, it lets you sleep better. There is peace of mind. The peace of mind that a calm financial situation, terms of investments, terms of pensions, in terms of taxes as well, if you are sure, I've got it, and it's being taken care of, or I am taking care of it,

Cristina Jaeger: Once you have the plan, it lets you sleep better. Then there is the of mind. The peace of mind that a calm financial situation in terms of investments, terms of pension, in terms of taxes as well. If you are sure, I've got it, it's being paid mail for identity therapy.

Julia Tatje: The relief that you will feel is enormous and people underestimate that. we can both highly... You don't think so? But the weight of something that didn't happen, what could happen is not often high enough to get started. Yeah, that's possible as well. I want to know if the Moskvich is activated. I mean, you are now doing a podcast, it's called Bold.

Cristina Jaeger: I don't think that they underestimated but the pain of something that didn't happen or could happen is not often high enough to get started with it. I wonder how we can get there and motivate it.

Julia Tatje: I'm sure it comes from your love of bold colours. So, what is it that you discuss in your podcast and how does that match with her financial freedom programme? And I want to highlight both lights.

Cristina Jaeger: sure it comes from you because you love bold colours. So what is it that you discussed in your podcast and how does it match with your health management freedom programme? In the end, think A, we didn't want to be super excluding, like only focusing on women. We also have male guests and I wanted to highlight bold lives.

Julia Tatje: people that live, that make both decisions and live both lives.

Cristina Jaeger: people that make bold decisions and live bold lives. And it's so cool because it opens up to entrepreneurs. So for example, I was now three months in Bali and I was living this cool living. Oh my God, was the nicest villa ever. Like I want to go back, but I'm planning to go down tomorrow, so it's all good. Anyway, and then there was this young guy. I actually recorded a session with him, 29. He sits like in the podcast, know, like just with a white t-shirt, like super relaxed.

Julia Tatje: And it's open because it opens up to entrepreneurs. So for example, I was now three months in Bali and I was living with a colleague who was the nicest villager in area. But I'm planning to play for tomorrow, so it's all good. So we're all hating Christina right now. when I younger, I actually recorded myself when I was 29. He says, I could have gotten a knowledge just with my T-shirt, super relaxed, multi-villain here, self-made. And I just want to insert you,

Cristina Jaeger: multi-millionaire, self-made. And I just want to interview, he said he has no liquid investments. He said he just doesn't know how. And he invested money in crypto, lost a lot of money. So he's like, hands off, I'm running my business. They're in good hands, but not with the wealth management. So I want to highlight stories of people who are living these, I don't want to say extraordinary, but maybe different lives, or made bold decisions.

Julia Tatje: said he has no liquid investments. He said he just does not count. And he invested money pretty much, he's like, hands off, running the business there, but not with the wealth. So have high rates of people who are living these, I don't want to say extraordinary, but maybe difficult lives. So, yeah, it's a recommendation. You can listen to both after you listen to Tax in the City. And we'll definitely link that in the show notes so that people can find your podcast. Is there one thing you want our listeners to leave when they switch off this podcast? One takeaway or two if you can't limit to one?

Cristina Jaeger: It's super simple get involved or you can also call it start

Julia Tatje: And I feel like we are out here, let's say, zero percent, because there are people, a lot of people that have some kind of lesson, that have taken care of some potential lessons.

Cristina Jaeger: And I feel like if you are now here, like let's say zero or you do a few percent, because there are actually some, a lot of women, they have some kind of investments or they have taken care of some pension investments, but there's not really an overall strategy. They don't know how much they pay, how is it actually invested or someone handles it for me, but they don't know the details. So you are somewhere here and then there's like a full strategy, full overview. It's a long stretch, right? So I'm like,

Julia Tatje: How can I open the topic just a few percent?

Cristina Jaeger: How can I open the topic? Just a few percent. Get involved this way. Okay. Listen to podcasts. Read cool books about it. Follow Instagram accounts, Fin Flancers, right, like me, who give bites as information. Join a finance event. Ask at the next coffee you have with your colleague, with your mom, with your girlfriend, hey, how are you actually investing? Are you investing? What was the last investment you did? Where are you putting your pen key?

Julia Tatje: Follow Instagram, like me, who gives license information. Join the finance department. Ask the next coffee you have with your colleague, with your mom, with your girlfriend, hey, how are you doing this? What was the last investment you did? Where are you in your pension? What was the last investment you made? How much percent of the investment? You don't have to talk numbers, right? This is the person party. So get involved.

Cristina Jaeger: What was an investment mistake you made? How much percent are you investing? You don't have to talk numbers, right? Because this is the American part of often. So get involved. And we try to reduce the hurdle of getting involved as much as possible. How? Running webinars online for free. We have recommendations lists for these named podcasts and books and Instagram accounts. Just involve yourself in this world.

Julia Tatje: And we try to reduce the burden of getting the product as much as possible, right where you are online for free. We have recommendations for these things, podcasts and books and Instagram. In all of these data from this world, we have a finance tracker that is not only a boring, not-so-truly tool. You can actually put emotions of the finance tracker in your finances, which is a little, yeah, and it's often pink and purple, and can manage checker responses. So I try to refuse manually from the ultra-managed world, into this finance tracker. So we try to give a lot of tools. For example, many women ask me, what do they do with backlash? Okay, so we try to add one.

Cristina Jaeger: We have a finance tracker that is not only a boring budgeting tool. You can actually put emotions with that finance tracker in your finances, which is really cool. And it's also pink and purple. And you can track also your assets. So I try to infuse my learning from the ultra high net world into this finance tracker. So we try to give a lot of free tools. For example, many women ask me, what do I do with my cash? OK, so we write a guide on.

Julia Tatje: We get asked how can I find the right corner.

Cristina Jaeger: High year savings account, right? What can you do with your cash? We get asked a lot, how can I find the right broker? We have a guide. just involve yourself in this whole discussion. It doesn't need to be this big, big topic from one day to the other. It's very unrealistic, but you can take small steps. Follow Instagram account. It's not a big step, you know, but over the time, like yesterday we had the event, no? I had women coming up. They joined my event since two years. And it's not even about finance, but obviously I always give a nudge.

Julia Tatje: Just involve yourself in the school discussion and it doesn't need to be this big, topic from one day to the other. It's very interesting. But you can take small steps. Follow this program. It's not a big step, you know. But over the time, like I guess you have to get involved. I have a company, they joined my last two years. It's not even about finance. But obviously, always give a match, know. say, I'm a young Christian, I'm doing this, this, this, this, this. And I talk to my old friends and I talk to my mom.

Cristina Jaeger: It's my networking event actually. They said, my god, Christina, I'm doing this and this and this and this now. And I talked to my girlfriends and I talked to my mom or I'm listening for my kid now. Like amazing. So cool.

Julia Tatje: I don't know if you say that in English as well, but in German you say, how do you eat an elephant? And you eat it bite by bite by bite. And you can do the exact same thing with an overwhelming topic like your finances. Yeah, and you should don't swallow the whole elephant at one time. It's not healthy. I think it's really funny how the things we avoid the longest.

Cristina Jaeger: How do you use that? Don't swallow the public underhand and have it there. I think it's really fine to a point the longest, and are often the ones that you have the most peace of mind when they are probably happy.

Julia Tatje: are often the ones that give us the most peace of mind once they are properly handled. And I'm saying what you said, you said I'm definitely not never going to work Texas for Yes, I said that. And also just because something happened. Yes. Then we found out that our funds were paid out in Switzerland and then I'm like, wow, we have to speak some money and we need to do something.

Cristina Jaeger: And it's not that we are different. I'm not sure about you, right? You said yesterday, you said, I'm definitely not never going to work in Texas for a long time. I started investing in my thirties and also just because something happened. The move to Hong Kong where my pension fund was paid out in Switzerland. And then I'm like, wow, now I have this big sum of money. I need to do something. So luckily I had the access and I knew what to do. But I also like kind of pushed it away. I'm like, ah, I'm tired.

Julia Tatje: So I liked the idea and I knew what to do. I also can't push it away. Later. The fame is later. So, Christina, thank you for reminding us that financial freedom isn't about perfection. It's about starting. And starting sooner than someday or later. Can I ask a question? Of course.

Cristina Jaeger: So, thank you for your time. I think it's good that the profession is starting. And starting sooner than someday or later. Can I give you one number? Of course. If you wait to invest 500 bucks per month for Switzerland doable, right? 500 bucks per month. If you just wait for 24 months or two years, it will cost you over the next 20 years.

Julia Tatje: If you just wait for 24 months or two years, it would cost you over the next 20 years 50K almost. Okay, like everybody note that down, it's a 500 and it has two zeros and the 50,000 has two zeros. So yes, so I think today is a good day to start.

Cristina Jaeger: 50k almost. Okay. So, everybody's known that 5,000 has two zeros and 50,000 has two zeros. So, yes. So, I think today is a good day to start. Yeah. Definitely. So, to everyone listening, you don't have to let this alone. You don't have to. Whether it's testing guidance, crosswalk, test, clergy,

Julia Tatje: Definitely. To everyone listening, you don't have to navigate this alone. don't have to. Whether it's investing guidance, cross-border tax clarity, here at Paxom and with people like Christina, there are smarter and calmer ways forward than just sit there by yourself asking CHED GPT what to do.

Cristina Jaeger: Here at Tux Home and with people like Christina, they are smarter than us forward than just sit there by yourself asking change between what to do. As always, more religious resources, contact with the instruments, waiting there for you. And just like that, you can listen to Tax in the City. Thanks Christina. Love your outro. Thank you so much.

Julia Tatje: As always, relevant links, resources, contacts will be in the show notes waiting there for you. And just like that, you've been listening to Tax and the City. Thanks, Christina. Okay.

Cristina Jaeger: Okay.