Julia: I couldn't help but wonder how many people are awake at night because of something they think they should already understand. Taxes have a way of doing that, especially when life gets bigger, faster, more international. I see it all the time, highly capable, ambitious people who manage teams, companies, entire careers across borders, and they completely freeze when it comes to their tax return. Not because they are careless, because the mental load feels well heavy. And that's why today's conversation matters, because maybe it's not a tax problem at all, maybe it's a pressure problem. my guest today is someone who understands not in theory but in the body. Catherine Pelican is a somatic coach for performance under pressure and burnout prevention.

Catherine: And

Julia: working with executives who look perfectly fine on the outside and feel anything but on the inside. We met at a networking event about change and somehow ended up being the most colourful people in the room, a bit like today. You can't maybe see it, but Catherine's suit today is green. I did meet her in that green suit. I was wearing a floral suit that evening and that was the icebreaker.

Catherine: and

Julia: real connection team when we started discussing our businesses, because you have your own business, I have my own business. So coaching meets taxes, pressure meets paperwork, performance

Catherine: Thank you

Julia: meets reality. Catherine, I'm so happy you're here and welcome to Tax of the City.

Catherine: for having me. This is treat to come into your bright surroundings and have a good conversation today.

Julia: Yes. So, Catherine, let's start with you. How did you end up working with your performance under pressure approach, your concept? Why do you do what you do today?

Catherine: really roots in my own experience. My career, I like to say, I have intentionally and sometimes inintentionally put myself into high pressure situations. My first career was in television journalism. So everyday live reporting, having to be highly eloquent in the moment, which I hope I am today. And then it led to a communications career where then I was

Julia: Yeah. Okay. That's a lot of pressure. you know, Of course, I'm sure. know

Catherine: alongside leaders, helping them for key media interviews. I like to say their moments in the spotlight on stage. then later

Julia: that leaders,

Catherine: when I transitioned over to HR and learning and development, supporting leaders when they're launching new transformations, sharing a new vision, trying to engage and bring people along with them on.

Julia: video.

Catherine: a massive change initiative. And that's really where it was all born of these moments of myself being on stage in front of hundreds, both singing, but then later professionally in front of group events. I do say, but not as often as I would like.

Julia: math. I sell the upstage on a hundred, and So you're singing as well? but not today. So yeah, can sing something for us in the end maybe. About taxes, no. I'm sure there's... Is there a song about taxes? Okay. And then we're going to make a big hit out of that. What was the moment where you realized this isn't stress, just stress, it's something deeper? for Do do? from

Catherine: Yeah, and it really was born out of my own journey. When I was 11, I was diagnosed with arthritis. And as a kid, every morning I had to wake up, check in, are my knees going to swell up today? Do I need to not do the after school activities I wanted to do and anything just to prevent my mom from putting me in bed so that my knees and my swelling would go down? Yeah. And it was really from that early awareness of like checking in with myself. And then I realized as I got older, like other people didn't do that. Like, how is your body in the moment? And from that, it was really born a passion for what some might say, somatics,

Julia: that. Like,

Catherine: embodiment, and nervous system regulation. And it was really my own journey. I built all those skills. But now when I come back and I bring it into people who are preparing to be on stage or they want to be promoted, and now they need to master the moment.

Julia: Okay.

Catherine: not only be articulate, come across with strong executive presence, and that's where some of these skills now come in. So we address not only how they show up, yes, what they're going to say, but also

Julia: Okay, that sounds like really cool and interesting. So like, yeah,

Catherine: are they truly feeling themselves like they're bringing people along with them. Yeah. And that's what we do together. Well, one key client came to me. He was stepping into a new role. He wanted to clone himself.

Julia: like a really, really interesting job. How do you do that? Like with people?

Catherine: He felt that he needed to really act like a manager now because now he was going to be managing some of his former peers. And for him, it was, first of all, internal confidence. Yeah.

Julia: So

Catherine: but it was also about scaling his leadership. So based on my transformation background, we started to look at, okay, how is he starting to scale himself? But it all came back to his ability to think clearly, communicate clearly, and to have confidence again in the moment. And that's where these, I like to say embodied skills come in. So yes, you can have all leadership skills,

Julia: a very practical thing. you

Catherine: been taught them in leadership trainings but it's like how do you apply it in the moment and that's where yeah working one-on-one of how do you master the moment how are you managing your nerves in the moment how do you stay present to what the team is saying, not only hearing all the different views that are coming in from your team, but then how are you turning it and moving the conversation forward? And those are some of the skills that we do both, I like to say the cognitive coaching approach, but then the body.

Julia: body-based

Catherine: based semantic approach. So it's really blending both of them into how can you be a more impactful leader in the moment? Because a lot of people are saying they don't have time to communicate, I don't have time to run around anymore, I need my team to deliver now. You need to be more impactful in the moment. That's what I help people do.

Julia: a And OK, so is this one the most common misconceptions, just what you said? If they feel this stress and pressure, it is not

Catherine: letting

Julia: Blaming it on the team, not delivering fast enough or good enough, but it is changing how they go about it. because instead

Catherine: Yeah, because it's instead of... Normally we're in that leadership mode of directing, saying what needs to be done, but instead are you asking that critical question? Guys, why are we really stuck here? What really needs to be addressed? What is the bottleneck? And sometimes that's a new leadership skill of more transparency, honesty, some people call it vulnerability or authenticity, but really having the conversations that need to be had in the moment. And I think a lot of leaders that I've been working with and speaking with, they understand the speed and the need to deliver now. So communication needs to be clear.

Julia: can't. Okay. Do you, this is in leadership situations, is it something that can be applied to other areas of your life too? have the impression always often think stress is a weakness and they feel ashamed about it or they ignore it.

Catherine: And you need to do it when you have that moment with people around the table.

Julia: potentially not the best idea. And

Catherine: And Yeah, so I have one group of clients that it's around executive presence. Yeah. You how can they master that moment and be influential? And the others are that burnout prevention, and some of them are reintegration. And so what we talk a lot about is, where is your

Julia: it is something that applies to a lot of other situations in your life too, doesn't it?

Catherine: energy being drained?

Julia: face Yeah.

Catherine: where are you getting your energy? But more importantly, how are you really managing your stress resilience? are you, do you have structures in your life where you're able to discharge some of that frustration and anger? Are you one of those that just keeps a really calm face and really composed, but then at night you just collapse? And so we look at some of the nervous system hacks that can support you with how am I making sure that I'm not keeping all of this tension in me and it's not building up throughout the day or throughout the week. And especially I'm sure that some people if it's you know coming crashing back to work on a Monday they can already feel that anxiety that need to speed up the pace when in fact

Julia: day

Catherine: Are you doing the things that help you be in your most effective state? Slowing down your pace of speaking. Is your environment, how to say, decluttered? Or are you focused directionally? Are you facing a wall or the big open space? And everybody has different ways that they can create their environment. that...

Julia: Yes. So that... What bothers one person not necessarily bothers another. Yes. In

Catherine: Yeah, so it's giving yourself all these signs that, you know, I am not under threat today, no lion is attacking me, because that's what the body sometimes does in this constant state of scanning the environment for danger. But how can you give yourself cues of safety so that you're coming into your day or into a certain meeting calm, present, articulate?

Julia: active.

Catherine: and more effective, rather than having that stress response drive the show. But, don't has for.

Julia: You mentioned a lion attacking. I have the impression that a lot of my clients feel attacked by the tax lion. Because it is a task no one ever asked for. No one ever raised their hand of like, yes, I'm so keen on doing that. And then a lot of my clients are international clients. They arrive here in Switzerland. They thought everything's fine with holding tax taken from their salary. And then one day...

Catherine: day,

Julia: they receive the famous tax form and they are asked to do something about it. Or sometimes it starts earlier when they are like, I'm not sure if I'm compliant. Then they start asking chat GPT.

Catherine: team,

Julia: which if you ask CHAT GPT five times, you get probably six different answers. And then the pressure, like it's getting more and more than you ask your friend, your colleague, your neighbour. Everybody has some part of the truth to contribute to the whole picture, but you're feeling super unsecure and you just don't want to do anything wrong because no one wants to be in trouble with the tax offer.

Catherine: Jennifer, some

Julia: hardly any people that want to be in trouble with the tax authorities. is this something that, like with your background and theories and the way how you look at pressure, what you could, is there an advice for clients like this to reduce this stress? Because I know that taxes are a massive mental load for many, people.

Catherine: with Well, just as you've been talking, I can feel my body like going into a stress response of tightening in my chest. My breath has gotten shallower. I can even feel my hands are a little more sweaty just hearing you talk about taxes. So, and the reason I came to speak with you is like, I'll be honest, money and finances and all of this administrative stuff is my biggest stress. It is where.

Julia: biggest stress.

Catherine: you just talk, you know, if I have to talk to somebody about my money and organizing it, it is the biggest stress trigger for me. Meaning it's, yes, so for me it's always been, you know, I've been in Switzerland 15 years and I've been through multiple attacks, support.

Julia: You understand. Yes.

Catherine: And for me, it is about connecting with the individual that supports me. Because believe it or not, I've had a tax preparer who I never met in person for years. So to me, that personal connection is, and that is based in the science of stress and resilience, that your personal social connection is a key factor. So just-

Julia: so it lets you calm down just because you know, okay, it's this one person I know, I met her, and she will take care of it.

Catherine: Yeah, it's someone you can trust. Versus the years when I had a big four accounting firm doing my taxes when I first arrived. You know, it was impersonal and I was dealt with technology mess and that created a lot more anxiety. Yeah.

Julia: So you send your stuff somewhere, you have no idea who does it, how, does this person understand who I am, does he or she understand my life, no idea.

Catherine: And the other thing that's helped with, I should say, my stress, you know, factors around taxes is I'm now at a stage because I'm self-employed, I'm looking for that provider that can grow with me. Meaning...

Julia: meaning all

Catherine: all of those questions that as I'm going through different stages of life, I need somebody that I trust has the right answers. And the hard part for me is, yes, I'm American and Swiss. And that adds a whole new complexity, you know, having the two passports, having, you know, just being an expat living here. And so through the years, I've learned a lot,

Julia: so

Catherine: but I could be wrong on what I've learned. And so having someone who's going to push back on

Julia: on

Catherine: you know, maybe the taxes I've prepared in the past that weren't accurate, and I have had providers do that. They've looked at my past taxes and seen, you know, some significant things that you wanted to change moving forward. And so, you know, you're a good example of this, someone who has the experience that I would trust, the connection that would be important to me.

Julia: seen that they

Catherine: And then the other part of kind of managing my stress around it is I do it only in a short period. Meaning I'm one of those people who manages my tax process. I try to do it in the shortest amount of time so I'm not dragging the stress with me for months and months and months months months months. Well, it's part of my US and Swiss tax filing situation too.

Julia: Why do people do that? so you are kind of like forced to. Imagine you didn't have this US liability. would you be someone that postpones

Catherine: Sometimes the previous year's taxes have not been completed the process and I'm already starting the second year. Yeah.

Julia: collecting the documents for your tax return until November?

Catherine: And I've learned that stresses me out because I'm just carrying that load of stress.

Julia: It won't go away.

Catherine: Yeah. So I've learned, find the provider who can help me now. We can get it done and I can say done. So the mental load of it is also there. So it's someone I can trust, somebody who has the skills experience, but then like they work in a way that I know I can, give it all over to them. It's, I'm still carrying a little bit of that mental load and worry, but As each year goes by, I'm trusting more and more, okay, this system works. It gets easier.

Julia: okay, most of the time it does. Yeah, Yeah, do you think, we offer to our clients is a checklist, we have it in German and we have it in English, that lists all potentially needed documents and that lets you go through easily. Our idea was that it potentially reduces stress and insecurity. Because you give someone a clear guide, this and this this could be needed. If it doesn't apply to you, just don't provide it.

Catherine: Yes, that is a great tool because the year, and for me, because I want the process to go efficiently.

Julia: Is this something that you also think reduces stress because it makes it easier? is The stress starts again.

Catherine: is when they come back and then there's a list of 10 things that I forgot and if I didn't, you know, I just didn't remember like travel, you know, in the U.S., those days, and especially now, the salary declaration and all the quarterly reportings that I do as self-employed. And for me, it's wanting to get it right the first time so that I'm not making these errors and adjustments later.

Julia: and for me it's

Catherine: because yeah, especially US, know, I still have one tax thing that just keeps lingering and lingering and I keep getting these nice US letters. And so something having a set process upfront that really helps me get organized, hopefully we'll one or two conversations so that things get done right the first time.

Julia: Do you have magic trick for everyone that is like... good Lord, I have to do it again, or I still need to do it. How could these people overcome the impulse of, I'm not going to do it this weekend, I can still do it next weekend, but just get it done and leave it to someone else to take care of it and then enjoy. Someone is taking care of it and it's no longer on my... internal list. It's gone. So how can people get over this point?

Catherine: Yes. get Well, my annual process is usually the paperwork stacks up and I clean this, what I call my tax bin, once a year. So it's going through the bin of the papers.

Julia: If you have some magic.

Catherine: pulling off online what's all needed and doing really in a focused weekend, like you said. And for me, I guess it's the agile coaching me that knows focused

Julia: you know,

Catherine: time on one thing helps me move the topic to done. And so when I'm doing that focused weekend, really thinking through I need this, I need this. And my mind is doing all that problem solving in one weekend. I feel lot more comfortable that I've had the time to think it through as well. So that I'm not just like ad hoc, know, throwing a bunch of stuff into a folder and sending a bunch of emails, you know, here's this, here's this, here's this. But also trying to be respectful of, you know, of your provider in the process too. Yeah. Yeah.

Julia: well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you, it's very kind of you thinking of that end. Yes. It's just, I have the impression,

Catherine: Thank you. Yes.

Julia: If people finally address the issue and maybe taxes, maybe speaking in front of people, maybe having that uncomfortable conversation with this one or whatever, like once you actually do it, doesn't it feel so much better then? Will our body learn that it was a good experience? Yes. Okay.

Catherine: Yes. So I like to say that when tension

Julia: and know, of Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay.

Catherine: shows up, know, think of it, it's there for good reason. Okay. Okay. Either protecting something you care about or, you know, there's some, like there's something to be moved forward. Yeah. Okay. And so withholding is a good example, you know, in teams when you're just teams or as leaders, if you have this thing that you're withholding telling somebody, But the minute you release this withhold and authentically say clearly what needs to be said, your body, you feel it. Like there's this huge release. And I think taxes are the same way. Meaning if you hold all of this stress and anxiety about needing to get it done, but you're right. The minute I push send on that initial kit, there's relief. There's relief. It's no more withholding

Julia: be said, it's Yes. in. that, it be so painful. So you still have to do it. But OK, so we can only encourage and I always want to encourage my clients to like, I'm not saying please send everything to me by January 15th, which is not realistic and technically even not possible because you might.

Catherine: and holding that in. Yes, my butt, like just as I was saying that to you, could feel the dungeon just whoop. So you still have to do it, right? Yeah.

Julia: not have all the documents by then. But on the other hand, also do not postpone all this to November 29th and then give me a call like, good Lord, I realised the deadline is tomorrow. Because most of the time we can slightly go over the deadline and whatever, but if you have this grant, this deadline that is hanging like over you and... This adds additional pressure. So you dragged it around for 11 months, you were potentially thinking about it twice a month minimum. Then from time to time, your client tax advisor is sending you a reminder like, Catherine, I have

Catherine: And then, yeah,

Julia: received your tax documents yet. then, yeah, there is no point in putting it on the last item on your to-do list in November. when you are already giving Christmas presents, people, please trust me, from experience, it's not worth it. Because taxes won't be lower. The filing obligation won't go away. And there's not less documents to be collected if you only do it in the... So there is no point in moving it that far into the future.

Catherine: I

Julia: As we can promise, you would feel it in your body.

Catherine: am right there with you. Why adds there's the pain of the taxes but the suffering and when you put that suffering, you know that pressure of time you know, it becomes true external pressure at that point, rather than just internal pressure. And so, you know, do you want to double your pressure by waiting or addressing it right away? Yeah.

Julia: So, I mean, this is why when we put together the list for this podcast, who we want to invite, I immediately thought of you, because there's a lot of clients that when they finally overcome this, I don't want to do it. It's like this, don't look at it, don't listen. And just it will go away and spot that it doesn't. But once they finally take ownership and they say, yeah, OK, I have to do it and I will do it. People keep telling me, such relief, that I know that you will from now on take over and that I can go back to what really matters to me in life, potentially not taxes. So yes, I wanted to have you here to confirm what I'm saying.

Catherine: Yes, meaning this pressure to do taxes will always be there and especially in the workplace now we always will have a pressure. But it's really about how you build your capacity to handle more. meaning how can you in the moment, you know, tick one box done, get taxes out the door early to help each other so that you have the capacity later on to do the other priorities. And especially a lot of burnout clients who are either reintegrating or are

Julia: clients

Catherine: think they're at risk of burning out. That's what they learn really early on is that I need to start setting boundaries, time boundaries, the equivalent for taxes. I need to stop doing everything alone. Yes. And when I start to

Julia: Yes. Yes. to

Catherine: Admit to others. Hey, I need support here That is releasing some of that pressure and that load that we're not people often carry so it's really looking at how can I Ask the right partners for support, know, that's social connection piece It helps your nervous system Okay The other one is getting clear boundaries like you can hear I said do it if I can in three months get all my taxes done and so working with

Julia: I

Catherine: someone on a timeline that supports you and how do you say, bringing yourself back up for other priorities.

Julia: know,

Catherine: week.

Julia: So you need to add some discipline first to stick a time frame, a deadline to generate freedom afterwards. So you

Catherine: So it's not that hard to get it done. But

Julia: do this performance under pressure program. it's not about...

Catherine: I You're right. It is about building the capacity to be able to handle more. I like to say the future...

Julia: how to deal with your taxes. But it is about pressure in general. what does it actually mean? I'm sure it's different from just how to manage more stress. future

Catherine: skills as leaders is about those human skills being more clear.

Julia: So

Catherine: influencing and engaging more critically now in the moment because of the speed of things that are happening. So what I do is I support somebody at looking at you. How are you? What are those things that trigger, stress you? And how can we make sure that we're addressing some of those chronic stressors? The second one is at work. It's usually around relationships and communication and stakeholder management. It's a new boss that you can't speak up to. It's a workload.

Julia: The 400 emails every day.

Catherine: that you know is beyond your capacity at the moment. Yeah. Okay, so we look at, you know, resourcing yourself. than that work and then also those relationships. And then more importantly, as a leader is moving up in their journey, and this is a lot of the executives I supported when I was in corporate, was about how they're more influential for that larger audience. And how can you do that through literally how you're showing up in a room? The energy, the mood, the tone, and through literally your body in the room, how is that bringing people to where you want to bring them.

Julia: Yeah. So I think this is something that a lot of people underestimate is the power of their body. Yeah, I can feel that.

Catherine: And I

Julia: And I think performance moments, there are a lot of them in our lives, in our work, in our relationships with our families. mean, showing up at Christmas and you have a whole family there, there's a lot of pressure too. I think if you build the ability to deal with pressure, it will help you in a lot of areas of your life.

Catherine: And especially as technology becomes more integrated, you know, an AI, you know, we become a lot more narrow focused, you know, not only with our eyes over laptops and handy mobile phones, but that in itself signals to our body, ooh, I'm under threat. Yeah, this tunnel vision, you know, how can you take these daily things, yes, delivering things, but also turn them into

Julia: Yeah. This tunnel. Yeah, this tunnel vision.

Catherine: into recognizing that you need some breaks in that day just to allow your nervous system to like, okay, I got that time when I can walk to the coffee bar and yes, do deep breathing.

Julia: you Yeah, because I think a lot of times you can't opt out. You can only choose

Catherine: feel my feet, stretch my posture, maybe get into social connection, all those things that help me then again get back into a more relaxed, calm, confident state so that I can go back to the laptop and deliver again for the next, you know, how many hours of meetings you have.

Julia: how you show up and how you deal with it. Catherine, thank you so much for this conversation, for reminding us that pressure doesn't come from the task itself, but it comes from how long we avoid it, how we go about it, how we address it. If there's one thing I hope listeners take away is this, you don't have to navigate heavy topics, whether it's taxes or other pressure in your life alone. the most responsible thing that you can do is ask for help before your body forces you to do so, because it will at some point force you. You'll find all of Katherine's details and ways to work with her and me in the show notes.

Catherine: That Well, thank you for all you're doing to support people like me with our tax loans and all of that stress and pressure. So thanks for allowing me to be a part of the conversation today. Thanks. Bye.

Julia: Funny how things that we avoid longest give us most peace once they are handled. Thank you, Catherine, for being here and for joining us. just like that, that was another episode of Tax and the City.

Catherine: Thanks, Dave.